Can Christians lose their salvation?

The human understanding, once it has adopted opinions, either because they were already accepted and believed, or because it likes them, draws everything else to support and agree with them. And though it may meet a greater number and weight of contrary instances, it will, with great and harmful prejudice, ignore or condemn or exclude them by introducing some distinction, in order that the authority of those earlier assumptions may remain intact and unharmed.
–Francis Bacon, Novum Organum, 1620

I believe that Scripture teaches that we can. (Answer to Leona’s question was so long I thought it should be a post.)

Clarification: A Christian (active Christ seeker/follower) cannot “lose” salvation, but we can CHOOSE to become non-Christians and walk away from God. Thus we are no longer saved according to scripture. Those who deny Christ and live in sin without repentance are NOT saved!

Certainly “no man” can take us out of Christ’s hand, and as long as we abide in Him we are most certainly saved, but if you search the scriptures carefully, paying close attention to what Jesus and His apostles said you will see that we can always choose to leave God – to take ourselves out of His hand. The Lord is looking for those who are committed to Him and to a relationship with Him. It is this relationship that saves us. We see in the parable of the seeds that some joyfully embrace the gospel, but then fall away because they are entangled in worldly things or have no ‘root’ in themselves (no real commitment). In the parable of the wayward son we see that the son was safe in his father’s household, but chose to leave. The father does not force him to stay, but allows him his free will. The father wants the son to return, and is joyful over the return. But not all do return. Hebrews 6 tells us: “Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity….For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance…” We are warned several times in scripture that ‘those who endure to the end will be saved’, and that if we deny Christ, he will deny us before the Father (Matt. 10:32). Paul worried that, having run in the race, in the end he would find that he had run in vain. Even with all that Paul did in the name of Christ he still felt that he might be disqualified. How can this be? Christ tells us that in the end there will be those who will come to Him saying that they had preached the gospel, healed the sick, and raised the dead in His name, yet He tells them “Go away from Me you evil-doers, I never knew you.” Remember Christ’s warning in Revelation 2 for the church at Ephesus to repent or be removed.

Christ tells His disciples in Matthew 5, “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how will it be made salty again? It is good for nothing anymore, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.” Read what Christ said about abiding in Him in John 15:4-10. There are many more passages, as this idea is a thread that continues throughout the New Testament. This is why we must “take up our cross daily, and follow” Him. I have seen those who have evidenced Christ in their lives who later fell away and denied Him. I’m sure you have, too. The fact is that I have done this myself, but God in His mercy allowed me to come back. In effect, we all do this whenever we sin, but God sees the heart and gives us grace. We can, however, get to a point where we are denying God to those around us, at which point, if we continue in it, Christ will deny us before the Father. Paul speaks to much of this in Romans 7 & 8, where he draws a line between the sinful flesh and our spirit’s desire to serve God. But what happens when our spirit no longer yearns for Christ? Is that possible? Sadly, we have seen this happen to people we have known. The lie however, comes in where “churched” people think that after an initial commitment to God, they can live their lives in sin and not worry about it too much because they “have their ticket to heaven”. Many are being fooled into thinking their future in heaven is secure. Remember, Paul warns us later in Romans (11:17-22) that we were grafted in, but can be cut off again if we do not continue in His kindness. We find the scriptures using the words abide, continue, remain, and endure (to the end) many times in describing our salvation. This is why we are told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Do not misunderstand me: I am not saying that salvation is by works of any kind. I am saying that that salvation is by faith, and that faith means a relationship with our high priest Jesus Christ. He knows us because of that relationship. If we cut off that relationship then we have no way to confess our sins or to hear from God what he would have us do. We are then deciding to be our own masters, since we have cut off communication with the true Master. God sees the heart, and if the heart is sincere then we will seek diligently after our Bridegroom, wanting to spend time with Him and to hear His voice. Most people in our churches (I use the word loosely) made a commitment to God at one time but have become insincere about keeping it. They feel guilt and want to assuage that guilt by going to church and pretending to be Christ’s. They even fool themselves, because that narrow gate and hard road is just too uncomfortable. I say they, but I mean myself, too. We all do this, which is why we are instructed to continually renew our minds. If we realize that the gift of God is free, but we have the option of refusing it on a daily basis we understand that God is wanting relationship with us as His bride. This drives us to keep open the lines of communication with Him and not to deny Him. Being a Christian is not a passive thing, it is a living and vibrant relationship that we must work at. We must take the kingdom of heaven by force! (Matt. 11:12). This is what Christ wants: a lover who will stop at nothing to be with Him, not someone He doesn’t know!

I hope this answers some of the questions. Study, pray. The Lord will lead you to Truth, for He IS Truth. I would love to hear any rebuttal, disagreements or comments!

-john

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8 Comments

  • Thank you for your answer. I too have done alot of research on this topic and I have come to the opposite conclusion. I agree that the Bible encourages us to endure to the end. But that those that do have a crown of righetousness laid up in Heaven. If the reward for enduring to the end was our salvation there would be no need for further reward. For those who deny Christ I believe that you can do this in your flesh but if you are truly saved then your spirit can not deny Christ. When we are saved the Holy Spirt dwell in us. Because God Christ and the Holy Ghost are one they cannot be divided. If a kingdom be divided against its self how can it stand? That being said I believe that a person who is truly saved cannot deny Christ. You quoted where the Bible says that no man can pluck you from the hand of Christ. We are selves are meerly men, so we too are included.
    2Timothy 1:12 says For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. Notice that this is past tense. I know whom I HAVE believed. And HAVE committed. And that it is not you who has to keep your but that HE
    is able.
    Unfortunatly this means that there are many people out there who believe that they can say a little prayer and be done. But there are many who believe they are saved and are not. It is not you who chooses to say a prayer and be saved. It is He who calls you to repentance and salvation. When you are brought to a knowlege of your sins put under conviction by the Holy Spirit, come to repentance and give up your life to Christ then you are saved. And at the same time your heart is changed. You can try to return to the world but you will find no comfort there. You will find that those things that brought you joy in the past no longer do. Solomon spoke of this in Ecclesiastes.
    I do believe in backsliding as spoken of in the Bible. And that God will place stumbling blocks to try and turn you back to Him. But that those who do not turn back will die physically. Those who are born again and profess to be Christians but living like the world are a bad witness for Christ. God will being them home early with out the rewards they might other wise recieve, rather than allow them to continue on this earth giving Him a bad name.
    I would like to turn you to Romans 10:9 which says ” That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. ” It says thou SHALT because it is God who saves and He says He will save you then He will. God keeps His promises.
    I would encourage anyone who says they are a Christian and Born again to examine their lives. Are you living for God, and if your not does it bother you or do you recieve the same joy you always did before you said a prayer or made a profession. If you can continue to live like the world they you need to think back and see if you can truly remember a time when you came under conviction and realized you were a sinner headed to Hell in need of a Savior. You can not frecieve salvation with out first comming to the knowledge of your sin and turning from it. And then giving your life over to Christ. It is not simply enough to ask Christ into your life. It is still YOUR life. Christ does not want to be merely part of your life he wants you to give your life over to Him completly.
    If you are truly saved you will be forever changed you will not have joy in the worldly things you once did (as Solomon explained) and if you try to continue to live as you used to you will be taken home early. You will stand before the Judgement seat of Christ and will have to give an account for your words and actions. You may think you have a free ticket being saved by grace and no longer having to keep the law but you will have no reward in Heaven and will have a shorter live here on earth. Think of this too the law says thou shall not commit murder; Grace says if you hate your brother you have committed murder in your heart. The law says thou shalt not commit adultery, Grace says if you look upon a woman to lust after he hyou have commited adultery with her already in your heart. So for any one who is truly saved by the Grace of God and feels they have a free ticket they are mistaken.
    The problem is that too many people/churches/pastors who teach once saved always saved but do not teach of the rewards in Heaven for those who faithfuly live for God. And do not teach the concequences for those who do not.

    Thank You so much John for this site. I enjoy the discussion. It challenges me to studay my Bible more. If your up for it I would love to discuss/debate Bible “Versions” with you. If you can tell where I do quote the Bible it is King James only.

  • 1 John 4
    1 ¶ Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
    2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
    3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

    Leona,
    I love to hear from you and your husband, as your spirit testifies of your love of Christ. Sorry it took so long for me to respond. I have compiled some verses that have struck me on this subject, thought this list is not complete. I’m using some new bible software, so I hope these are all from the KJV, as I too believe it is the most accurate English translation. Please take your Strong’s concordance and Greek dictionary and check the tense of some words such as “have believed” in 2 Timothy. The word ‘have’ is not only past tense, but is also an ongoing tense, and, in this case, speaks of continuing faith. In Romans 10:9 and others the word believe is an ongoing action. If it is only past tense then has the belief stopped? And remember, the demons believe, and tremble…
    It is true that if we believe on Him (continuing) and confess Him with our mouth (continuing) we will be saved, but what if we forsake our first love and abandon Him? Does that invalidate our previous relationship with Him? How do people like this then exhibit the gifts of the spirit? Does God make a contract with us and refuse to let us break it? If those people never knew Christ, then how is it that Scripture speaks of them who have known the gifts and the spirit and then have broken fellowship?
    I believe that the Word of God is perfect and inerrant. Therefore we must take it as a whole. It must be ALL true, or we can trust none of it. So, when we come to things that may seem to contradict each other we realize that there is something we don’t yet understand.

    My words are inadequate for the task. I ask you to consider the following Scripture, as a whole, not just as individual statements.

    Mt 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
    Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    Mr 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
    Mr 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

    Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

    Ac 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
    Ac 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
    Ac 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

    Ro 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
    6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
    7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
    8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
    9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

    Ro 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
    Ro 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
    Ro 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
    Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
    Ro 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

    1 Cor 9:23 And this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
    24 ¶ Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
    25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
    26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
    27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

    Phil. 2:12 ¶ Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
    3:9 ¶ And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
    10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
    11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
    12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
    13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

    Col. 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
    23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard

    1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. 11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;
    12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.
    13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.
    14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.
    15 For some are already turned aside after Satan.

    1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

    6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

    2 Ti 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
    12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
    13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
    14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
    15 ¶ This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.
    16 The Lord give mercy unto the house of Onesiphorus; for he oft refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain:
    17 But, when he was in Rome, he sought me out very diligently, and found me.
    18 The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day: and in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, thou knowest very well.

    11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
    12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
    13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

    7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
    8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

    Hebrews 3
    6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
    7 ¶ Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
    8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
    9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
    10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
    11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
    12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
    13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
    14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
    15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
    16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
    17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
    18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
    19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

    Heb 4:1 ¶ Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
    2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
    3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
    4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
    5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
    6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
    7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
    8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
    9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
    10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
    11 ¶ Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

    Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
    5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
    6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
    7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
    8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
    9 ¶ But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
    10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
    11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
    12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

    Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
    26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
    27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
    28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
    29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
    30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
    31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

    38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
    39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

    Hebrews 12
    13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
    14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
    15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
    16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
    17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

    Heb 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
    26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
    27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
    28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

    Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
    20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
    2 Peter
    20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
    21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them

    1John 2
    22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
    23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
    24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

    Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
    Rev. 3

    . 5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

    15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
    16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

    Rev 4: 1 ¶ And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
    2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
    3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
    4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
    5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

  • Hi John. I would have liked to have replied sooner too but time just did not permit. I have done some research and here are several reasons that I have found that show a saved person can never loose their salvation. I will admit that I did nto have time to do all the research my self but I found a great book to help me start out my research. I checked out each of the verses and the context in which they are used and agree with each of them. So here goes. I sure hope this comes out right. Im cutting and pasting form the word program I saved it to.

    Bible Reasons Why A Saved Person Can Never Be Lost

    1. ETERNAL LIFE is ETERNAL and EVERLASTING LIFE is EVERLASTING
    And I give unto them eternal life; and
    they shall never perish, neither shall
    any man pluck them out of my hand.
    (Joh 10:28)

    Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that
    heareth my word, and believeth on
    him that sent me, hath everlasting life,
    and shall not come into condemnation;
    but is passed from death unto life.
    (Joh 5:24)

    If the ETERNAL life you received as a gift from God ever ceases for any reason it was not ETERNAL. Those who assume they have some sort of spiritual life, which ceases through sinful living, a change in beliefs, or for any other reason – did not have ETERNAL life. To be truly ETERNAL, it must not end.
    Likewise, if EVERLASTING life ever ceases for ay reason – it was not EVERLASTING by the obvious definition of the word. The life, which God gives to the believer, must not end at any time, or it was never EVERLASTING life in the first place.

    2. It is not the will of God for a saved person to ever be lost.
    And this is the Father’s will which hath
    sent me, that of all which he hath given
    me I should lose nothing, but should
    raise it up again at the last day.
    (Joh 6:39)

    Since Ephesians 1:11 says that God “worketh all things after the counsel of His own will,” His will must be fulfilled in preserving our salvation

    3. You already Have reservations in Heaven.
    The Salvation You Have is INCORRUPTIBLE
    The Salvation You Have Inherited Cannot be
    DEFILED
    You have been born of incorruptible seed.
    To an inheritance incorruptible, and
    undefiled, and that fadeth not away,
    reserved in heaven for you, (1Pe 1:4)

    Being born again, not of corruptible seed,
    but of incorruptible,by the word of God,
    which liveth and abideth forever.
    (1Pe 1:23)

    Also Matthew 19:29 says that this inheritance includes everlasting life.
    Neither You nor Satan, nor anyone else can corrupt that which God has declared to be INCORRUBTIBLE
    Neither You, nor Satan, nor anyone else can defile that which God has declared to be UNDEFILED
    Your new birth was accomplished by an INCORRUPTIBLE SEED, and neither Satan nor man can corrupt a birth which God has declared to be INCORRUBTIBLE.

    4. At salvation you were sealed by the Holy Spirit.
    In whom ye also trusted, after that ye
    heard the word of truth, the gospel of your
    salvation: in whom also after that ye
    believed, ye were sealed with that Holy
    Spirit of promise, (Eph 1:13)

    No Power on Earth or in Heaven can break the seal set in place by Omnipotence.

    5. The Holy Spirit Promised to Abide with You
    FOREVER
    And I will pray the Father, and he shall
    give you another Comforter, that he may
    abide with you forever; Even the Spirit of
    truth; whom the world cannot receive,
    because it seeth him not, neither knoweth
    him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with
    you, and shall be in you. (Joh 14:16-17)

    The coming of the Holy Spirit at Salvation to indwell the believer is a permanent transaction which lasts forever.

    6. You are preserved forever.
    For the LORD loveth judgment, and
    forsaketh not his saints; they are
    preserved forever: but the seed of the
    wicked shall be cut off. (Psa 37:28)

    The Bible identifies all who have been saved by the grace of God as “saints”. And “ His saints…are PRESERVED FOREVER”

    7. You have been born of God and cannot be
    unborn
    You have been created by God and can never
    be uncreated
    But as many as received him, to them
    gave he power to become the sons of
    God, even to them that believe on his
    name: Which were born, not of blood, nor
    of the will of the flesh, nor of the will
    of man, but of God. (Joh 1:12-13)

    Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a
    new creature: old things passed away;
    behold, all things are become new.
    (2Co 5:17)

    For we are his workmanship, created in
    Christ Jesus unto good works, which
    God hath before ordained that we should
    walk in them. (Eph 2:10)

    To facilitate our understanding of salvation, the Lord Jesus likened receiving eternal life to physical birth. He called it being “born again”. That analogy would be destroyed if someone who has been born of God could ever be “unborn” at some future time. There is only one Creator and that which He created cannot be uncreated

    8. You are preserved unto the Heavenly Kingdom
    And the Lord shall deliver me from every
    evil work, and will preserve me unto his
    heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory
    forever and ever. Amen. (2Ti 4:18)

    This was the testimony of the Apostle Paul by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, but it is our testimony as well because the Bible says that “God is no respecter of persons”. If he will preserve Paul, He will preserve you.

    9. You are kept by the power of God.
    Who are kept by the power of God
    through faith unto salvation ready to be
    revealed in the last time. (1Pe 1:5)

    Your salvation comes, initially, “through faith”, but you are “kept by the power of God”. How could anyone kept by the power of God ever fail to be kept?

    10. You are secure because the Lord Jesus has
    prayed that you would be.
    And now I am no more in the world, but
    these are in the world,and I come to thee.
    Holy Father, keep through thine own
    name those whom thou hast given me,
    that they may be one, as we are.
    (Joh 17:11)

    When God the Son prays that you will be kept, you may rest assured that His prayer will be answered.

    11. Salvation is of the Lord.
    But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice
    of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have
    vowed. Salvation is of the LORD. (Jon 2:9)

    I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it
    shall be forever: nothing can be put to it,
    nor any thing taken from it: and God
    doeth it, that men should fear before
    him. (Ecc 3:14)

    Salvation is of the Lord, and if the Lord is the one who has saved you “ I KNOW THAT WHATSOEVER GOD DOETH, IT SHALL BE FOREVER”

    12. Your salvation is dependant only upon God’s
    ability
    For I know whom I have believed, and am
    persuaded that He is able to keep that
    which I have committed unto Him against
    that day. (2Ti 1:12)

    If you have committed your eternal soul to the Lord, the Bible says He is able to keep it until that day when you are with Him in His presence.

    13. God promises you shall not come into
    condemnation.
    The Lord Jesus promises that you shall never
    perish.
    Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that
    heareth my word, and believeth on him
    that sent me, hath everlasting life, and
    shall not come into condemnation; but is
    passed from death unto life. (Joh 5:24)

    My sheep hear my voice, and I know
    them, and they follow me:And I give unto
    them eternal life; and they shall never
    perish, neither shall any man pluck them
    out of my hand. (Joh 10:27-28)

    If anyone who has ever been saved, ever again came into condemnation, this promise would be broken.
    Notice that Jesus did not make His promise conditional upon a certain lifestyle. He said unequivocally “I give unto them eternal life and they shall NEVER PERISH”

    14. You will never be cast out.
    All that the Father giveth me shall come
    to me; and him that cometh to me I will in
    no wise cast out. (Joh 6:37)

    The promise of the Lord Jesus is that for no reason, and in no way will He ever cast out those who have been given into His care by God the Father.

    15. It would not be good for you to loose your
    salvation.
    And we know that all things work together
    for good to them that love God, to them
    who are the called according to his
    purpose. (Rom 8:28)

    This verse is directed toward believers. The lost would not love God (1 John 4:7b). How could it ever work together FOR GOOD to loose your salvation? Yet, God promises that ALL THINGS will work together FOR YOUR GOOD once you have received His gift of eternal life. And it would not be good for you to loose your salvation.

    16. You are in the hand of Christ.
    You are in the hand of the Father.
    And I give unto them eternal life; and they
    shall never perish, neither shall any man
    pluck them out of my hand. (Joh 10:28)

    My Father, which gave them me, is
    greater than all; and no man is able to
    pluck them out of my Father’s hand. I and
    my Father are one. (Joh 10:29-30)

    Some say you must “hold out” in order to be saved. The Bible says that the Lord is doing the holding. What’s more you have double security. You are in the hand of both the Father and the hand of the Son. “No man” includes you, so you cannot remove yourself from the hands of God.

    17. You are a sheep and will remain a sheep.
    My sheep hear my voice, and I know
    them, and they follow me: And I give unto
    them eternal life; and they shall never
    perish, neither shall any man pluck them
    out of my hand. (Joh 10:27-28)

    The Bible always refers to lost Gentiles as dogs and lost Jews as pigs. Salvation turns you into “a new creature” (2 Cor 5:17). Believers are pictured as sheep. No dog has ever changed himself into a sheep; only a miracle of God could accomplish that. Conversely, no sheep has ever changed himself into a dog; and neither can you.

    18. Saving mercy never ends.
    Not by works of righteousness which we
    have done, but according to his mercy he
    saved us, by the washing of
    regeneration, and renewing of the Holy
    Ghost; (Tit 3:5)

    Twenty six times in Psalm 136 we read “His mercy endureth forever.” The mercy by which He saved you was not a temporary thing, it will endure FOREVER!

    19. God’s performance is as good as His
    promise.
    God is not a man, that he should lie;
    neither the son of man,that he should
    repent: hath he said, and shall he not do
    it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not
    make it good? (Num 23:19)

    God the Son has promised – “He that believeth on Me hath everlasting life.” (John 7:47). His performance is as good as His promise.

    20. All your sins are gone forever.
    As far as the east is from the west, so far
    hath he removed our transgressions
    from us. (Psa 103:12)

    He will turn again, He will have
    compassion upon us; He will subdue
    our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their
    sins into the depths of the sea. (Mic 7:19)

    I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy
    transgressions, and,as a cloud, thy sins:
    return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.
    (Isa 44:22)

    Behold, for peace I had great bitterness:
    but thou hast in love to my soul delivered
    it from the pit of corruption: for thou hast
    cast all my sins behind thy back.
    (Isa 38:17)

    And their sins and iniquities will I
    remember no more. (Heb 10:17)

    “Cast into the dept of the sea”, “blotted out, as a thick cloud”, “Behind thy back”, “remove as far as the east is from the west”, “Remember no more”. All these phrases testify that ALL your sins are gone forever.

    21. The Bible promises that you will ultimately be
    like Christ.
    Beloved, now are we the sons of God,
    and it doth not yet appear what we shall
    be: but we know that, when he shall
    appear, we shall be like him; for we shall
    see him as he is. (1Jo 3:2)

    “ We SHALL be like Him” is not a statement of possibility, it is a statement of ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY

    22. You are already glorified, by God’s reckoning.
    Moreover whom he did predestinate,
    them he also called: and whom he
    called, them he also justified: and whom
    he justified, them he also glorified.
    (Rom 8:30)

    How can someone who is glorified ever be lost?

    23. You will appear with Christ in glory.
    When Christ, who is our life, shall
    appear, then shall ye also appear with
    him in glory. (Col 3:4)

    Only an omniscient God who knew your future and accepted you in spite of it, could make this promise in advance of it’s fulfillment. He says to every believer “You SHALL appear with Him in glory”

    24. You are hidden in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    For ye are dead, and your life is hid with
    Christ in God. (Col 3:3)

    By God’s evaluation, you are dead to natural life. The only life you have is the eternal life which He has given you, and it is HIDDEN in such a way that Satan cannot disturb it.

    25. You are secure because the Lord is now
    praying for you.
    Wherefore He is able also to save them
    to the uttermost that come unto God by
    Him, seeing He ever liveth to make
    intercession for them. (Heb 7:25)

    With the Lord Jesus continually interceding for the believer, your salvation is to the “uttermost” or to the “full-ended” as it is in the Greek.

    26. God will finish what He started.
    Being confident of this very thing, that He
    which hath begun a good work in you will
    perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
    (Phi 1:6)

    God, having begun the work of salvation in your life, will continue to perform that work until it is fully accomplished.

    27. Your salvation was obtained for you by the
    Lord.
    Neither by the blood of goats and calves,
    but by His own blood He entered in once
    into the holy place, having obtained
    eternal redemption for us. (Heb 9:12)

    “By His Own blood … once … obtained eternal redemption”. We simply receive the eternal redemption the Lord Jesus has OBTAINED FOR US. Because He obtained it once, He obtained it forever.

    28. Your life and the Lord’s life are one and the
    same.
    You have become part of Christ Himself
    When Christ, who is our life, shall
    appear, then shall ye also appear with
    Him in glory. (Col 3:4)

    For we are members of His body, of His
    flesh, and of His bones. (Eph 5:30)

    “Christ … is our life”. How can we loose our life unless He looses His life again? Since the Lord Jesus will never die and HE IS OUR LIFE, we, of necessity, have a life which will never end.
    At salvation, we become “one flesh” with Christ who is the Heavenly bridegroom. This is a spiritual truth, but there is no scriptural foundation for denying it to be literally true as well. “In Him we live and move and have our being” (Acts 17:28) is a Bible truth that must certainly have a more intimate meaning for those who are “in Christ” (2 Cor 5:17). Consequently, the FLESH AND BONES OF CHRIST cannot be continually torn by men and women loosing their salvation.

    29. God’s covenant with you is everlasting.
    Now the God of peace, that brought
    again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that
    great shepherd of the sheep, through the
    blood of the everlasting covenant,
    (Heb 13:20)

    And I will make an everlasting covenant
    with them, that I will not turn away from
    them, to do them good; but I will put my
    fear in their hearts, that they shall not
    depart from me. (Jer 32:40)

    A covenant is an agreement, and God’s agreement with the believer is to give you EVERLASTING life through the blood of Christ.

    30. The Lord Jesus is able to keep you from
    falling.
    Now unto him that is able to keep you
    from falling, and to present you faultless
    before the presence of His glory with
    exceeding joy, (Jud 1:24)

    Not only is the Lord able to keep you from falling, He is willing. “not willing that any should perish” (2Peter 3:9). This is the answer to those who suggest that “falling from grace” is a means of loosing your salvation.

    31. When Jesus died for you all your sins were
    future sins.
    And other sheep I have, which are not of
    this fold: them also I must bring, and they
    shall hear my voice; and there shall be
    one fold, and one shepherd. (Joh 10:16)

    Here the Lord Jesus spoke of your salvation. He said that He had other sheep which were not of the Jewish fold, speaking of the Gentiles who would be saved in a day yet future. Your future sins cannot cause you to loose your salvation because when Jesus died for you EVERY SIN IN YOUR LIFE WAS A FUTURE SIN. You had not been born yet.

    32. God Cannot Lie.
    In hope of eternal life, which God, that
    cannot lie, promised before the world
    began; (Tit 1:2)

    God cannot lie, and He has said of all TRUE believers, “They shall NEVER perish” (John 10:28). “He that believeth on the Son hath EVERLASTING LIFE” (John 3:36)

    33. Salvation is a gift which will not be retracted.
    For the wages of sin is death; but the gift
    of God is eternal life through Jesus
    Christ our Lord. (Rom 6:23)

    For by grace are ye saved through faith;
    and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of
    God: Not of works, lest any man should
    boast. (Eph 2:8-9)

    For the gifts and calling of God are
    without repentance. (Rom 11:29)

    The word “repentance” is the word “irrevocable” in the Greek. Once God gives the gift of eternal life to someone, it is irrevocable.

    34. You have imputed righteousness.
    Even as David also describeth the
    blessedness of the man,unto whom God
    imputeth righteousness without works,
    Saying, Blessed are they whose
    iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins
    are covered. (Rom 4:6-7)

    To “impute” righteousness means to bestow by divine reckoning. If your righteousness was earned you could loose your salvation by unrighteous action. Because your righteousness has been imputed to you, based solely on the merits of Christ, your righteousness could only be lost if HE became unrighteous.

    35. The Lord Jesus is the Author and Finisher of
    your faith.
    Looking unto Jesus the author and
    finisher of our faith; who for the joy that
    was set before Him endured the cross,
    despising the shame, and is set down at
    the right hand of the throne of God.
    (Heb 12:2)

    Not only is the Lord Jesus described as the AUTHOR of your faith, TO BEGIN IT, He is also described as the FINISHER – TO END IT. If you were to loose your salvation somewhere along the way, He would cease to be that which the Bible declares Him to be in your life. You cannot finish or put an end to your faith. He is the Finisher.

    36. The authority of the Word of God.
    These things have I written unto you that
    believe on the name of the Son of God;
    that ye may know that ye have eternal life,
    and that ye may believe on the name of
    the Son of God. (1Jo 5:13)

    Blessed be the LORD, that hath given
    rest unto his people Israel, according to
    all that he promised: there hath not failed
    one word of all his good promise, which
    he promised by the hand of Moses
    his servant. (1Ki 8:56)

    The grass withereth, the flower fadeth:
    but the word of our God shall stand
    forever. (Isa 40:8)

    The previous reasons why a saved person cannot loose their salvation are the proof for this one, “The Authority of the Word of God.” By inspiration, the Spirit of God said “ These things have I written … that ye may know that ye have eternal life” God says that we can “Know” that we have life in Christ which will have no end, because of the things He has written to those who believe. The Bible has its own authority.

    I also want to take a look at the life of Lot. We know that he was raised believing in God. He worshiped and sacrificed with His uncle Abraham. We also know that he was righteous before God because God sent Angels to remove Lot and his family form Soddom and Gamorrah before God destroyed them. There is also evidence that while living in Soddom and Gamorrah that Lot was not living as he should be. He went to his family and told them what the angel of God had told him. They looked at him and said who are you?! That God should talk to you. They could not tell by his lifestyle that he was a righteous man. Lot’s wife was disobedient to God and looked back, she was not taught by her husband to obey the Lord. And we can tell that Lot’s daughters certainly were not brought up in the fear and admonition of the Lord by their actions toward their father. And at no time in the Bible do we ever see Lot returning to a right relationship with God. But God still considered him to be righteous and still saved him. I believe Lot’s story was to show us that though you may turn away, through Christ’s sacrifice on the cross you can still be righteous before God.


  • Leona,  Again
    apologies for the delay!  I have replied to your letter below, within the
    original letter.  If you find anything I say to be offensive or rude or gruff,
    please know that it is just my way of talking and is not intended to offend – so
    please forgive me in advance, as some of it may seem harsh.


     -john S.

    Hi John. I would have liked to
    have replied sooner too but time just

    did not permit. I have done
    some research and here are several reasons

    that I have found that show a
    saved person can never loose their

    salvation. I will admit that I
    did nto have time to do all the

    research my self but I found a
    great book to help me start out my

    research. I checked out each of
    the verses and the context in which

    they are used and agree with
    each of them. So here goes. I sure hope

    this comes out right. Im
    cutting and pasting form the word program I

    saved it to.

     

    Bible Reasons Why A Saved
    Person Can Never Be Lost

     

    1.  ETERNAL LIFE is ETERNAL and
    EVERLASTING LIFE is EVERLASTING

                     And I give
    unto them eternal life; and

                     they shall
    never perish, neither shall

                     any man pluck
    them out of my hand.  

                     (Joh 10:28)

               

                     Verily,
    verily, I say unto you, He that 

                     heareth my
    word, and believeth on

                     him that sent
    me, hath everlasting life,  

                     and shall not
    come into condemnation;

                     but is passed
    from death unto life.  

                     (Joh 5:24)

    If the ETERNAL life you
    received as a gift from God ever ceases for

    any reason it was not ETERNAL.
    Those who assume they have some sort of

    spiritual life, which ceases
    through sinful living, a change in

    beliefs, or for any other
    reason – did not have ETERNAL life. To be

    truly ETERNAL, it must not end.

    Likewise, if EVERLASTING life
    ever ceases for ay reason – it was not

    EVERLASTING by the obvious
    definition of the word. The life, which God

    gives to the believer, must not
    end at any time, or it was never

    EVERLASTING life in the first
    place.


    ‘Eternal’ is a
    characteristic if the gift ‘life’, not a characteristic of the conditions or
    acceptance of the gift.  If someone sends you red roses and you refuse them,
    they do not become any less red.

     

    2.  It is not the will of God
    for a saved person to ever be lost.

                   And this is the
    Father’s will which hath

                   sent me, that of
    all which he hath given

                   me I should lose
    nothing, but should

                   raise it up
    again at the last day. 

                   (Joh 6:39)

     

    Since Ephesians 1:11 says that
    God “worketh all things after the

    counsel of His own will,” His
    will must be fulfilled in preserving

    our salvation


    By this reasoning,
    since no one can resist the will of God, ALL will be saved, for this is God’s
    will, including Judas Iscariot and the anti-christ.

    3.  You already Have
    reservations in Heaven.

          The Salvation You Have is
    INCORRUPTIBLE

          The Salvation You Have
    Inherited Cannot be 

            DEFILED

          You have been born of
    incorruptible seed.

                   To an
    inheritance incorruptible, and

                   undefiled, and
    that fadeth not away,

                   reserved in
    heaven for you,  (1Pe 1:4)

     

                   Being born
    again, not of corruptible seed,

                   but of
    incorruptible,by the word of God,

                   which liveth and
    abideth forever. 

                   (1Pe 1:23)

     

    Also Matthew 19:29 says that
    this inheritance includes everlasting life.

    Neither You nor Satan, nor
    anyone else can corrupt that which God has

    declared to be INCORRUBTIBLE

    Neither You, nor Satan, nor
    anyone else can defile that which God has

    declared to be UNDEFILED

    Your new birth was accomplished
    by an INCORRUPTIBLE SEED, and neither

    Satan nor man can corrupt a
    birth which God has declared to be

    INCORRUBTIBLE.


    Certainly the
    Eternal Life cannot be corrupted so as to become non-eternal, but you ignore

    Heb 6:4  For it is impossible
    for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and
    were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

    5  And have tasted the good
    word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

    6  If they shall fall away, to
    renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of
    God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

    7  For the earth which drinketh
    in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by
    whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

    8  But that which beareth
    thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be
    burned.

    9   But, beloved, we are
    persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we
    thus speak.

    10  For God is not unrighteous
    to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in
    that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

    11  And we desire that every
    one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the
    end:

    12  That ye be not slothful,
    but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.


     

    4.  At salvation you were
    sealed by the Holy Spirit.

                 In whom ye also
    trusted, after that ye

                 heard the word of
    truth, the gospel of your

                 salvation: in whom
    also after that ye

                 believed, ye were
    sealed with that Holy

                 Spirit of
    promise,  (Eph 1:13)

     

    No Power on Earth or in Heaven
    can break the seal set in place by

    Omnipotence.


    Romans 10: 9 & 10


      That if thou shalt
    confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thy heart that God
    hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man
    belivieth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto
    salvation.


    If we look into the
    word “believe” in the original Greek we find that it is “pistikos”, to have
    faith,
    and is from the word “pistis”, which means persuasion and is used to
    indicate constancy in such a profession.  This, in turn, agrees with all those
    verses I mentioned that speak of endurance, clinging to, and abiding in.  Do we
    throw out those passages and only keep the ones we like? Who is being God then
    if we do? WE ARE!  The word of God must be integrated as a whole and accepted as
    the whole Word of God.  Do we have assurance of our salvation? YES!, But there
    ARE conditions.  Namely, continuing faith and confession. The word tells us of
    those who have had a relationship with Christ and who HAVE HAD the Spirit, but
    turned back, away from God. Those people have rejected the free gift of God that
    they once accepted.  God’s gift did not change, the heart of the recipient
    did!   Otherwise, who is the writer talking about in Hebrews where it is
    written:

    Heb 10:25  Not forsaking the
    assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one
    another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

    26  For if we sin wilfully
    after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more
    sacrifice for sins,

    27  But a certain fearful
    looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the
    adversaries.

    28  He that despised Moses’ law
    died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

    29  Of how much sorer
    punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot
    the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was
    sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

     

    30  For we know him that hath
    said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again,
    The Lord shall judge his people.

    31  It is a fearful thing to
    fall into the hands of the living God.

     

    38  Now the just shall live by
    faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

    39  But we are not of them who
    draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.


     

    5.   The Holy Spirit Promised
    to Abide with You 

            FOREVER      

                  And I will pray
    the Father, and he shall

                  give you another
    Comforter, that he may

                  abide with you
    forever; Even the Spirit of

                  truth; whom the
    world cannot receive,

                  because it seeth
    him not, neither knoweth

                  him: but ye know
    him; for he dwelleth with

                  you, and shall be
    in you. (Joh 14:16-17)

     

    The coming of the Holy Spirit
    at Salvation to indwell the believer is

    a permanent transaction which
    lasts forever.


    This refers to those
    who REMAIN in Him, or do you reject Paul’s words to believers in
    Romans 11:20,21:


    Because of their
    unbelief they were broken off, and thou standeth by faith. Be not
    high-minded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take
    heed lest He also not spare thee.  Behold therefore the goodness and
    severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if
    thou continue
    in His goodness: otherwise thou shalt also be cut off.


    How do we reconcile
    this against vs. 29, which says ” For the gifts and calling of God are without
    repentance.”? This does not contradict what Paul just said, instead it
    emphasizes it!  God is faithful, He expects the same from us, or we will be
    removed from the tree!  This is not God’s will if this happens, it is ours!  God
    will not force us to stay with Him and enjoy His blessings – we can play the
    harlot, the prodigal, and leave, never to return. 

    6. You are preserved forever.

                   For the LORD
    loveth judgment, and 

                   forsaketh not
    his saints; they are

                   preserved
    forever: but the seed of the

                   wicked shall be
    cut off.  (Psa 37:28)

     

    The Bible identifies all who
    have been saved by the grace of God as

    “saints”. And ” His saints are
    PRESERVED FOREVER”


    Yes, if we ARE His
    saints, but what of those who turn against Him and become once more the “seed of
    the wicked”?

    Jas 2:19  Thou believest that there is one God; thou
    doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

    20  But wilt thou know, O vain
    man, that faith without works is dead?

    2 Peter

    20  For if after they have
    escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and
    Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter
    end is worse with them than the beginning.

    21  For it had been better for
    them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it,
    to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them

     

    1John 2

    22  Who is a liar but he that
    denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and
    the Son.

    23  Whosoever denieth the Son,
    the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the
    Father also.

    24  Let that therefore abide in
    you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from
    the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the
    Father.

     

    Rev 2:11  He that hath an ear,
    let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall
    not be hurt of the second death.

     


     

    7.  You have been born of God
    and cannot be 

             unborn

         You have been created by
    God and can never

              be uncreated

                   But as many as
    received him, to them

                   gave he power to
    become the sons of

                   God, even to
    them that believe on his

                   name: Which were
    born, not of blood, nor

                   of the will of
    the flesh, nor of the will

                   of man, but of
    God.  (Joh 1:12-13)

     

                   Therefore if any
    man be in Christ, he is a

                   new creature:
    old things passed away;

                   behold, all
    things are become new.

                   (2Co 5:17)

     

                   For we are his
    workmanship, created in

                   Christ Jesus
    unto good works, which

                   God hath before
    ordained that we should

                   walk in them.
    (Eph 2:10)

     

    To facilitate our understanding
    of salvation, the Lord Jesus likened

    receiving eternal life to
    physical birth. He called it being “born

    again”. That analogy would be
    destroyed if someone who has been born

    of God could ever be “unborn”
    at some future time. There is only

    one Creator and that which He
    created cannot be uncreated

     


    Romans 19: 11   And
    that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now
    is our salvation nearer than when we believed.


    What?!  Are these
    saints saved or not?  What can it mean that their salvation is nearer?  If they
    are born again then they are already saved, aren’t they?   BOTH ARE CORRECT. 
    God’s ways are higher than ours, and our understanding is weak.  Because we have
    a hard time reconciling these two ideas does not make the Scriptures wrong or
    make God a liar.  NOR DOES IT MEAN WE CAN PICK AND CHOOSE WHICH PASSAGES APPLY
    TO US!  In all the passages I have investigated the conditional words “faith”,
    “believe”, “continue”, “abide”, “endure”, etc. all are used in the sense of a
    continuing action. You have been given the power, by God, to believe or
    disbelieve, to follow God or to leave Him.  Do you actually believe that after
    you have believed in Christ that you no longer have a choice?  What then of the
    passages I have mentioned? What of Christ speaking to the Father and saying
    (John17:12)  While I was with them, I kept them in thy name,
    which thou hast given me; I have guarded them, and none of them is lost but the
    son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled.
     
    God had given Judas to Christ also, did God take him back.  How could Judas be
    “lost”, except that he had been “found”?

    8.  You are preserved unto the
    Heavenly Kingdom

                   And the Lord
    shall deliver me from every

                   evil work, and
    will preserve me unto his

                   heavenly
    kingdom: to whom be glory

                   forever and
    ever. Amen. (2Ti 4:18)

     

    This was the testimony of the
    Apostle Paul by inspiration of the Holy

    Spirit, but it is our testimony
    as well because the Bible says that

    “God is no respecter of
    persons”. If he will preserve Paul, He

    will preserve you.


    Why does Paul turn
    men who were Christians over to Satan? Paul says they had faith!


    18   This charge I
    commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances
    which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare,


    19  holding faith
    and a good conscience. By rejecting conscience, certain persons have made
    shipwreck of their faith,


    20  among them
    Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered to Satan that they may learn not
    to blaspheme.


     

    9. You are kept by the power of
    God.

                   Who are kept by
    the power of God

                   through faith
    unto salvation ready to be

                   revealed in the
    last time.  (1Pe 1:5)

     

    Your salvation comes,
    initially, “through faith”, but you are

    “kept by the power of God”. How
    could anyone kept by the power of

    God ever fail to be kept?


    You seem to have
    forgot the “through faith” part.

    10.  You are secure because the
    Lord Jesus has 

              prayed that you would
    be.

                   And now I am no
    more in the world, but

                   these are in the
    world,and I come to thee.

                   Holy Father,
    keep through thine own

                   name those whom
    thou hast given me,

                   that they may be
    one, as we are.

                   (Joh 17:11)

     

    When God the Son prays that you
    will be kept, you may rest assured

    that His prayer will be
    answered.


    So Christians no
    longer have free will? How then did Peter deny Christ?


    Christ prayed that
    all Christians would be one.  Is there one church?  Do we all agree?  This
    prayer is similar to another Christ prayed aloud – to let His disciples hear His
    will and for their benefit.  Christ never said that since He wished it it would
    be so.  He still gives us free will. Let’s not twist the Word to suit us.

    11.  Salvation is of the Lord.

                   But I will
    sacrifice unto thee with the voice

                   of thanksgiving;
    I will pay that that I have

                   vowed. Salvation
    is of the LORD. (Jon 2:9)

     

                   I know that,
    whatsoever God doeth, it

                   shall be
    forever: nothing can be put to it,

                   nor any thing
    taken from it: and God

                   doeth it, that
    men should fear before

                   him.  (Ecc 3:14)

     

    Salvation is of the Lord, and
    if the Lord is the one who has saved you

    ” I KNOW THAT WHATSOEVER GOD
    DOETH, IT SHALL BE FOREVER”


    Again you ignore all
    the other passages!  The question of salvation is of two parts: 1) God provides
    it as a free gift forever; 2) We have it as long as we follow Him and accept the
    gift. God will not change, but men do! God is always faithful, but Christians
    are CONSTANTLY encouraged to remain faithful. Why?


    What of this in

    1Peter 1?  10  Therefore, brethren, be the more
    zealous to confirm your call and election, for if you do this you will
    never fall;


    11  so there will
    be
    richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord
    and Savior Jesus Christ

     Why do these believers need to worry about being
    able to enter into eternal life?

    12. Your salvation is dependant
    only upon God’s  

              ability

                   For I know whom
    I have believed, and am

                   persuaded that
    He is able to keep that

                   which I have
    committed unto Him against

                   that day. (2Ti
    1:12)

     

    If you have committed your
    eternal soul to the Lord, the Bible says He

    is able to keep it until that
    day when you are with Him in His

    presence.


    And what of those
    who are no longer commited to God?  Is Christ a liar when He says that if we
    deny Him before men He will deny us before the Father?  Peter denied Christ
    before men, was he lost at that moment (Christ cannot lie), or was his
    repentance and heart toward God that which consequently saved him?

    13.   God promises you shall
    not come into   

              condemnation.

    The Lord Jesus promises that
    you shall never  

              perish.

                   Verily, verily,
    I say unto you, He that

                   heareth my word,
    and believeth on him

                   that sent me,
    hath everlasting life, and

                   shall not come
    into condemnation; but is

                   passed from
    death unto life.  (Joh 5:24)

     

                   My sheep hear my
    voice, and I know

                   them, and they
    follow me:And I give unto

                   them eternal
    life; and they shall never

                   perish, neither
    shall any man pluck them

                   out of my hand. 
    (Joh 10:27-28)

     

    If anyone who has ever been
    saved, ever again came into condemnation,

    this promise would be broken. 

    Notice that Jesus did not make
    His promise conditional upon a certain

    lifestyle.  He said
    unequivocally “I give unto them eternal life and

    they shall NEVER PERISH”


    Again, “believeth”
    is a continuing action, His sheep are those who “continue in the faith”(

    Joh 8:31, Ac
    13:43, Ac 14:22,
    Ro 11:22, Col
    1:23, and so on and so on…)

    14.  You will never be cast
    out.

                   All that the
    Father giveth me shall come

                   to me; and him
    that cometh to me I will in

                   no wise cast
    out.  (Joh 6:37)

     

    The promise of the Lord Jesus
    is that for no reason, and in no way

    will He ever cast out those who
    have been given into His care by God

    the Father.

     


    But we can leave, he
    will not prevent us!  Witness Christ�s parable of the prodigal son! He was not
    cast out when he returned.


    YOU CAN NOT IGNORE
    SOME SCRIPTURE JUST BECAUSE IT DOESN’T FIT INTO WHAT YOU WANT TO BELIEVE!


    2 Titus 3:16  All
    scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for
    reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


    17  That the man of
    God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


     

    15.  It would not be good for
    you to loose your   

              salvation.

                   And we know that
    all things work together

                   for good to them
    that love God, to them

                   who are the
    called according to his

                   purpose. (Rom
    8:28)

     

    This verse is directed toward
    believers. The lost would not love God

    (1 John 4:7b). How could it
    ever work together FOR GOOD to loose your

    salvation? Yet, God promises
    that ALL THINGS will work together FOR

    YOUR GOOD once you have
    received His gift of eternal life. And it

    would not be good for you to
    loose your salvation.

     


    Continuing
    action:
      “to them that love God”


    It is God’s will
    that NONE should perish, there is obviously another factor here – our will!


    Certainly we see
    many things, even in our churches, that are not ‘good’, and people fall away
    every day. If they cease to love God, then they cease to be saved – salvation is
    by relationship with Christ.  There are absolutely too many “ifs” in scripture
    for it to be any other way.


     

    16.  You are in the hand of
    Christ.

            You are in the hand of
    the Father.

                   And I give unto
    them eternal life; and they

                   shall never
    perish, neither shall any man

                   pluck them out
    of my hand.  (Joh 10:28)

     

                   My Father, which
    gave them me, is

                   greater than
    all; and no man is able to

                   pluck them out
    of my Father’s hand. I and

                   my Father are
    one.  (Joh 10:29-30)

     

    Some say you must ‘hold out’ in
    order to be saved. The Bible says

    that the Lord is doing the
    holding.  What’s more you have double

    security. You are in the hand
    of both the Father and the hand of the

    Son. “No man” includes you, so
    you cannot remove yourself from the

    hands of God.


    You don’t “hold
    out”, you remain faithful, or else!


     

    Reply

  • What, then do you say to a Christian (Me) who was going through great difficulty in life:

    Began asking the “normal” philosophical questions that crop up between the ages of 15-28. (You know the questions.)

    Asked God to let him start from square 1 (Atheism) and find “Truth”, in its untainted, original form, without cultural, or parental influence.

    Oh, crap… God went away… Almost like being saved again! Free from authority, free as can…wait…mommy? Daddy? I’m lost in the candy store!

    5 years later: God, I believe in you now, I’ve come back! (Deep, ominous silence) I’m back, hello? ( ) (That was silence)

    As of right now, God is not answering. How, then, can I be saved?

  • It sounds like you and I have gone through a lot of the same things (I still am going through it!). Remember that the Bible says that he who endures to the end will be saved AND that God sees our heart. Only He knows who we truly are. Yes, I believe that there were times in my life that I would not have been saved, as I had rejected God (If we deny Christ before men, then Christ will deny us before the Father).
    That said, God is sovereign, and can do as He pleases. I, however, am not in that position and must go by what He has given me. It is kind of like my relationship to my wife or best friend. They know me, and know that when I screw up I will eventually return and repent. But what if I don’t ever do that? Then I am showing what that my true character is. God always waits for the prodigal son, He stands and hopes for his return. But He allows him to leave and go his own way. My son does a lot of disobedient and selfish things, but I love him and will always allow him to repent. He can, however, depart from what is right and not really repent – instead just lie to me and think I will believe him. I may get fooled, yes, God is not fooled (mocked).
    Those scriptures in my posts above lay it out well. We have to have a relationship with the Lord God to be saved. It is not just some ticket we can hold onto and present at the ‘pearly gates’ someday.
    I understand your present situation. I am there myself right now. I used to hear from God, but He is being frighteningly silent. And it has been going on for way too long. But then we knew the truth and we abandoned that truth, didn’t we? He has already spoken to us. Maybe now He is waiting to see if we really, really trust Him and mean what we say.
    Me? I have decided to trust Him. I am willing to wait, though I am not normally a patient person. He is worth the wait. “Where can we go, Lord? You have the words of life!”
    I think that, for me at least, God has given me a great deal and I squandered it. Since I am no longer a child-Christian, God is treating me in a more ‘adult’ manner. It is time for me to grow up and use what I have been given before He will give me more. Though I also am groaning under that deafening silence, I realize that He is still speaking to me though His Word and through what He has spoken to me in the past. I must endure until I am where He knows I am ready for more. I trust Him in that. Everything in life has brought me to that point. I trust HIM, and that is what He calls “faith”.

  • Did Jesus Christ die for All our sins or not? If we are truly “Born Again” then the Holy Spirit is “sealed” inside each one of us. The Bible tells us, 13 “In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance..” (Ephesians 1:13-14 NKJV) and 21 “Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.” (2 Corinthians 1:21-22 NKJV)

    How can You unseal that which God has sealed or revoke this guarantee. It wouldn’t be a guarantee then would it? I think you have to make the distinction whether someone is out of “Fellowship” or was truly saved to begin with because John writes, “18..by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.” (1 John 2:18-19 NKJV)

  • Kevin,
    One of the hard parts of following God is putting ALL scripture together in order to understand it as a whole. When Christ told the parable of the wayward (prodigal) son (HIS son in HIS kingdom) and of the tares He was explaining His kingdom: He has provided us a home and a way to get there, and will never revoke His promises. But He will not FORCE us to stay if we wish to leave. Someone who makes and is faithful to a covenant is not bound to keep it if the other party to the covenant breaks it! While we are on earth we must “work out” our salvation – not salvation by works, but if we love Him we will keep His commandments. If we leave voluntarily and decide to stay out living with the pigs He will not compel us to return to His estate, though He may desire it for us.
    The disciples were told that those that deny Him before men He would deny before the Father. This is what we do when we sin, therefore it is imperative that we repent daily, lest we be found a denier of Him when we die (do not misunderstand: God see’s the heart, and judges us us by our true motives, so I am not saying that if you have ANY sin you will go to hell). He will not, and can not, allow those who have once tasted the gift of the Holy Spirit but who have turned away to enter His kingdom. It is the belief that we have an irrevocable ticket to heaven that causes a great many to never get serious about their walk with Christ. Scripture has told us that those who PRACTICE homosexuality (among other things) will NOT enter the Kingdom of God. But what if they had always been a Christian before that, exhibiting true fruit of the Spirit? Is God a liar? May it never be!
    Go back and read how many passages there are that say things like “IF you remain in Me I will remain in you” and “he who ENDURES TO THE END will be saved”. Salvation is RELATIONSHIP, not an irrevocable ticket that has been punched. This is the same message that God continually gave the Jews in the old testament, and He changes not!
    Yes, Jeshua died for ALL sins – including those who will spend an eternity in hell. He HAD to, as He set this whole sin/failure thing up in the first place to teach and test those who would be His, but it will be of no benefit to those who deny Him, even if they have previously tasted of the Holy Spirit. They may have received the Word with “great joy”, but if they did not ENDURE, He will spew them out of His mouth.
    Read all those verses above again, including those in my responses to Leona. How can we throw them out and just pick and choose the verses we like, because they are “easy”?
    If we are saved by faith, then are we still saved when we lose that faith? The Bible indicates that is not the case, no matter how many men in the denominations have taught us otherwise. Shalom.

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